Old Sarge Comments on Charismatic practices

“The excesses and errors
of the modern movement
is what keeps people from
being saved
and the cautious
from exploring
the gifts of the Spirit.”
– Source: “Old Sarge“

No one was seeking anything other than a hasty disposal of the body in 2 Kings 13:21. I saw a sermon showing that last miracle was fulfilling the promise of getting a double portion.

Elijah had 14 miracles and at his death Elisha only had 27. This one made 28 fulfilling the promise and it is nothing that shall be repeated as it was Elisha’s and no one else had that promise.

I was a cessationist for many years and things like this kept me from the Charismatic movement. Yes, if you want to pray at a grave and ask God for a portion of someone’s mantle – fine. Romanian Christians under Communism often did this because there was no one to ordain them due to the persecution.

They were not sucking anointing out of the grave, but rather asking for one of their own along the lines of the departed pastor. The excesses and errors of the modern movement is what keeps people from being saved and the cautious from exploring the gifts of the Spirit.

There is no biblical basis for gold dust, “alien jewels”, gold teeth, spiritual rain and orbs in Scripture. Indeed, orbs are a part of occultism. If God replaced the teeth it would be reasonable that they would be originals better than what they had at birth, but not gold ones. Indeed, Jesus healed the blind, the lame, the dumb and raised the dead, but nothing is said about replacing teeth and I am sure many in that day had many dental issues.

When you read the Book of Acts, many times when it is said that the people were filled with the Holy Ghost – they spoke the Word with boldness. They were in one accord and no one had a need.

None of the emotional things we see today were ever mentioned. No one fell on the floor. That happened twice in all of Scripture and it was out of fear and awe.

Nowhere in Acts does it say people who were saved, baptized in the Spirit and spoke in tongues did crazy things. No one convulsed or twitched for hours or as one lady is still shaking long after her revival.

That is more consistent with people who have been involved in Kundalini spiritism or even Tourette’s syndrome than being filled with the Spirit. Indeed, people were like the demoniac and given a sound mind, not doing things that were not decent and in order as Paul said the services should be.

Scripture speaks of laying hands on people. but not pushing or slapping or kicking them down. No waves of people fainting as Paul or anyone else waved their hands and Paul or the others did not release the Spirit.

The Spirit fell while Peter was still giving his testimony and no one taught them how to speak in tongues. It just happened. The Spirit releases Himself. He needs no help or signal from any man. Someone tried to teach me tongues at a conference, but a gift is received, not taught. No hissing like snakes or doing belly flops across the platform. That is dramatic and emotional, but not a gift of the Spirit.

Indeed, if tongues are for the unbeliever, it would make sense that they would only be exercised in the church when there is an unbeliever present. And since the first instance was languages the unbelievers understood it would be one the unbeliever present would understand in an effort to evangelize.

Yes, prophecy will convict sinners, but a redneck Alabama boy speaking in Swahili would convict a person who spoke the language whereas numerous people speaking in an unknown tongue to him would make him think you are mad.

I believe that when the Holy Spirit was sent His mission was the same until His influence is taken away at the Rapture. That means the gifts He brought in the beginning He still has sufficient supply of for the Church Age.

That said, the Corinthians abused the gifts, the Anti-Christ will have lying gifts and the boys and girls in Matthew 7 had something that looked like the gifts of the Spirit, but they were obviously more like the powers of Pharaoh’s magicians because Christ did not know them.

Bethel NAR-types supporting false practices: Feucht, Eric Johnson, Bill Johnson

John said to try every spirit and Paul said people would be given over to seducing spirits and doctrines of devils so discernment in these last days is not hate, but seeking truth. Truth will call out heresy and extremism that will cause the enemies of God to blaspheme.

One other thing, the prophets in the Word were never wrong unless they were false prophets. A true prophet was dead on 100% of the time or he was dead. I do not see anything different under grace.

People still send money to men and women who have had prophecies that failed or teach obvious error. There is no learning curve.

When God gave them [prophets in the Word] a prophecy, it was clear and not some vague thing like Nostradamus. Indeed, do not despise prophecy, but do not fall for the fake. Indeed, not everyone was given a prophecy of being great and a worldwide ministry. Many prophets brought a message of coming judgment. Their message became comforting after the chastisement.

The letter kills and the Spirit gives life, but the Spirit will never contradict the Word since He was very instrumental in writing it. Charismatics need a better hermeneutic as much is not based on good interpretation of a passage.

What makes a great “evangelistic” message may be shot down by a good dose of study. Jesus went to Paradise. He was never beaten on by demons and He did not become the first born-again man. That is heresy of the highest order and speaking of another Jesus, not the one of the Bible. A teacher who believes that should not be followed or supported.

The great cloud of witnesses are the ones in Hebrews Chapter 11, not our loved ones looking down. If we moved the chapter division that is not inspired it is easy to see that.

Charismatics need a better hermeneutic
as much is not based on
good interpretation of a passage.

We need to be careful and not willy-nilly with the Word. I was in great error for 42 years as a fighting, independent, fundamental Baptist. I do not seek to go to the other extreme. God is a God of balance and that is a hard thing to find these days.

Bring the flames. I have been flamed by the best. I do not worry about the rest.

May God open all of our eyes as we seek Him and the truth.

– Source: Comments by “Old Sarge” copied from the Comments section of the post in 2016: Bill Johnson Addresses Some of the Controversies Concerning Bethel Church | 79 Comments | 26 October 2016 admin News 79 | bewatchful.org