Bentley – News on Todd Bentley

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HONEST QUESTIONS ABOUT the LAKELAND REVIVAL

-by J. Lee Grady [CHARISMA EDITOR]

I support any holy outbreak of revival fervor. But let’s be careful to
guard ourselves from pride and error.

God is stirring deep spiritual passion in the hearts of the thousands
of people who have traveled to Florida during the last month to
experience the Lakeland Healing Revival. Since these meetings
began in a 700-seat church on April 2, the crowd has moved four
times to bigger venues, the fervor has intensified and the news
has spread worldwide—thanks to God TV and online broadcasting.

Within a few weeks, the bandwagon effect was in full swing. It’s
safe to say that no outbreak of Pentecostalism in history has
gained so much international exposure so quickly as these
meetings have.

I’m a cheerleader for the charismatic movement, so I rejoiced
when I heard the news about revivalist Todd Bentley’s extended
visit to Ignited Church. It was thrilling to hear the reports of
miracles and to watch the crowd grow until a stadium was
required to hold everyone.

When I visited a service on April 15, I was blessed by Heather
Clark’s music and the audience’s exuberant worship. And I
laughed with everyone else as I watched Bentley shout his
trademarked “Bam! Bam! Bam!” as he prayed for the sick and
flailed his tattooed arms over the crowd. Hey, Jesus didn’t pray for
people according to the Pharisees’ rulebook, so I’m open to
unconventional methods.

But I would be dishonest if I told you that I wholeheartedly
embraced what I saw in Lakeland. Something disturbed me, but I
kept my mouth shut for three weeks while I prayed, got counsel
from respected ministry leaders and searched my heart to make
sure I was not harboring a religious spirit. The last thing we need
today is more mean-spirited heresy hunters blasting other Christians.

I am not a heresy hunter, and I support what is happening in
Lakeland because I know God uses imperfect people (like me and
you) to reach others for Jesus. At the same time, I believe my
questions are honest and my concerns are real.

My motive is not to criticize Bentley or the pastor who is
sponsoring these meetings, Stephen Strader. In September 2002
Charisma featured a seven-page article about Bentley’s amazing
conversion from drug addiction. I believe Bentley is a sincere
brother who wants people to encounter God’s presence and power.
No doubt this 32-year-old evangelist needs our prayers now more
than ever, especially since he has become the focus of
international media attention.

But as the noise from Lakeland grows louder and its influence
spreads, I’m issuing some words of warning that apply to all of us,
not just the folks in Lakeland. I hope everyone understands that
these cautions are offered in love:

1. Beware of strange fire.The name of Jesus is being lifted up in
the Lakeland revival, and three people came to the altar for
salvation the night I attended. Larger numbers have come to the
front of the auditorium to find Christ every night since then.

Yet I fear another message is also being preached subtly in
Lakeland—a message that cult-watchers would describe as a
spiritual counterfeit. Bentley is one of several charismatic
ministers who have emphasized angels in the last several years.
He has taught about angels who bring financial breakthroughs or
revelations, and he sometimes refers to an angel named Emma
who supposedly played a role in initiating a prophetic movement in
Kansas City in the 1980s. Bentley describes Emma as a woman
in a flowing white dress who floats a few feet off the floor.

All of us who believe the Bible know that angels are real, and that
they work on our behalf to protect us and minister to us. But the
apostle Paul, who had encounters with angels himself, issued
stern warnings to the Corinthians, the Galatians and the
Colossians about angels who preach another gospel or that
demand attention. In Colossae, believers were so enamored with
angels they had seen in visions that they became “inflated without
cause” by spiritual pride (Col. 2:18, NASB). Paul was adamant
that preoccupation with angels can lead to serious deception.

We need to tread carefully here! We have no business teaching
God’s people to commune with angels or to seek revelations from
them. And if any revival movement—no matter how exciting or
passionate—mixes the gospel of Jesus with this strange fire, the
results could be devastating. We need to remember that
Mormonism was born out of one man’s encounter with a dark
angel who claimed to speak for God.

2. Beware of bizarre manifestations.When the Holy Spirit’s power
comes on people they may feel weak or even fall. The Spirit’s
power can also cause people to tremble, shake, laugh or cry.
Such manifestations are biblical and we should leave room for
them. But where do we draw the line between legitimate
experience and fanatical excess?

The apostle Paul had to deal with outrageous charismatic
manifestations in the Corinthian church. People were acting like
raving lunatics—and turning the church in to a free-for-all of
unbridled ecstatic behavior. Paul called for discipline and order,
and he reminded early Christians that “the spirits of prophets are
subject to prophets” (1 Cor. 14:32). In other words, Paul was
saying that no one under the influence of the Holy Spirit should
act out of control.

In many recent charismatic revivals, ministers have allowed people
to behave like epileptics on stage—and they have attributed their
attention-getting antics to the Holy Spirit. We may think it’s all in
fun (you know, we’re just “acting crazy” for God) but we should be
more concerned that such behavior feeds carnality and grieves the Spirit.

When exotic manifestations are encouraged, people can actually
get a religious high from jerking, vibrating, screaming or acting
intoxicated. (I have even been around people who writhed as if in
pain, or made sexual noises—thinking this was a legitimate
spiritual experience.) But emotional euphoria doesn’t guarantee a
heart change. The person who is bucking like an untamed bronco
in a church service would benefit more from sitting still and reading
the Bible for an hour. When we put bizarre behavior on the platform
we imply that it is normative. Thus more strange fire is allowed to spread..
3. Beware of hype and exaggeration.Our hearts are crying out
today for a genuine move of God. We want the real deal. We’ve
read about the Great Awakenings of the past and we long to see
our nation overcome by a wave of repentance. The church is in a
backslidden state, and our nation has rebelled against God. We
are desperate!

In our longing for a holy visitation, however, we must be careful not
to call the first faint breeze of the Spirit a full-fledged revival. If we do
that, we are setting people up for disappointment when they realize it may not
be what we blew it up to be.

Some of the language used during the Lakeland Revival has
created an almost sideshow atmosphere. People are invited to
“Come and get some.” Miracles are supposedly “popping like
popcorn.” Organizers tout it as the greatest revival in history.

Such brash statements cheapen what the Holy Spirit is doing—
and they do a disservice to our brothers and sisters who are
experiencing New Testament-style revival in countries such as Iran,
China and India. We have a long way to go before we experience
their level of revival. Let’s stay humble and broken before the Lord.

I am rejoicing over all the reported healings at the Lakeland
meetings. Miracles are awesome. Crowds are great. But miracles
and crowds alone don’t guarantee a revival. Multitudes followed
Jesus during His ministry on earth, but many of the people who
saw the dead raised or ate food that was supernaturally multiplied
later crucified the Son of God.

It was the few disciples who followed Jesus after Calvary who
ushered in a true revival—one that was bathed in the fear of God,
confirmed by signs and wonders, tempered by persecution and
evidenced by thousands of conversions, new churches and the
transformation of society. We should expect nothing less.
– J. Lee Grady is editor of Charisma.

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Todd Bentley, Lakeland revival

The problem in Lakeland has been that there has been a weird
unbiblical ‘anointing’ at the very center right from the start. And it
has been imparted to thousands of people. In fact, Todd Bentley
has said that the whole thing is “about impartation” – and they
lay hands on everyone. The “angels” factor has also been at the
very center from the beginning. Angels are said to be heading
up the whole movement – doing the healings, speaking to the
leaders, etc. They are not a “side issue”. Todd Bentley’s angels
are at the heart of everything. And if you look at all his past
experiences with so-called ‘angels’, you truly have to doubt the
source of a lot of this “power”. Did Emma and the “financial”
angels sound right to you? If they are “off” then most likely Todd
is dealing with false angels all the time.

As I said, we are not dealing with a movement that has problems
around the “fringes” here. The problems are right at the heart – ie.
they involve the central things that are being preached and imparted
to people from the front. And it has been that way from the start –
which is what makes this crucially different from a real Revival.
I hope, Lee, that you can see what an important distinction this is?

Let me quote the whole end section of Lee Grady’s article before
commenting further:

J. LEE GRADY:
“In recent days, people who were touched in Lakeland have started
similar meetings in Atlanta, Chicago, Charlotte, N.C. and other
cities. Bentley and his colleagues believe this is the beginning of
a worldwide healing revival that will cover the globe.

“But not everyone in the charismatic/Pentecostal community is
convinced. Some say this is the last end-time revival while others
maintain it is a demonic counterfeit. Cult-watchers and anti-heresy
bloggers post Bentley’s comments on YouTube as evidence of a
theological scandal. Revival advocates respond by posting
documented evidence of healings. It all begins to resemble a
childish competition.

“Still others worry that Lakeland represents a questionable mixture
of truth and error. Since the initial eruption of the revival, my inbox
has been full of messages from charismatic leaders who are
concerned about weighty issues as well as trivial ones: Everything
from Bentley’s tattoos and body piercings to his claim that he once
interviewed the apostle Paul in heaven.

“When I wrote an article in mid-May calling for scrutiny of some
aspects of the Lakeland Revival, I was labeled a Pharisee and a
“religious policeman.” People who said they had been deeply
impacted by the Holy Spirit in Lakeland used spiritual threats and
harsh terms to tell me that I had become the enemy.

“I refuse to go on the defensive, and if I need to retract any
statement I’ve ever made about this revival I will. But what these
nasty exchanges have shown me is that a divisive spirit is certainly
at work in our midst—and we need urgent prayer to short-circuit
what the devil wants to do.

“When the early church was hit with the issue of Jewish legalism,
Paul and Barnabas determined that the answer was to seek the
counsel of “the apostles and elders” in Jerusalem (Acts 15:2, NASB).
The church was being divided because the legalists were insisting
that gentiles be circumcised. But when the elders looked into the
matter, the apostle James settled the dispute by issuing this wise ruling:

“Therefore it is my judgment that we do not trouble those who are
turning to God from among the gentiles, but that we write to them
that they abstain from things contaminated by idols and from
fornication and from what is strangled and from blood” (v. 19-20).
In other words, James affirmed the gentiles’ access to salvation < br />and overturned the legalists’ bad doctrine.

“Based on this biblical example, I am appealing to the elders in our
movement. We need to hear from them in this hour. In a desperate

moment we need older, seasoned veterans to release the counsel of the Lord..

“Today the charismatic movement has become fractured, and
opposing camps have formed. On one side there are those in the
apostolic camp who tend to emphasize biblical order, proper
church government, spiritual warfare and the reformation of society.
On the other side are those in the prophetic camp who focus on
miracles, healing, mystical experiences and the reclaiming of all
the supernatural manifestations of the New Testament.

“Both of these camps are contending for valid, biblical truths. We
need the prophetic and the apostolic! We need miracles as much
as we need healthy church growth and societal change. Yet if we
do not have a holy intervention, we could bite and devour one
another—and cancel out our collective impact.

“A biblical council must include the leaders of both of these camps.
And leaders must address all of the difficult issues triggered by
the Lakeland Revival. Those include:

“1. Biblical guidelines about angels. Some people in the prophetic
camp speak of frequent visits to heaven, “third heaven revelations,”
and long conversations with angels who use names such as
Emma, Promise and Winds of Change. Are these indeed spirits
sent from God, or agents of false light?

“2. A proper theology of the dead. Some in the prophetic camp
claim they have had conversations with dead Christians—including
Paul the apostle. Is this within the bounds of Christian experience,
or is it necromancy?

“3. Pastoral guidance about exotic spiritual manifestations. In
some circles in our movement, unusual signs and wonders have
been reported in church services—including the sudden appearance
of gold dust, feathers, gemstones and oil. At the same time,
worshipers are vibrating on the floor, jerking uncontrollably and
acting intoxicated. How can we protect people from the abuse of
manifestations, and from demonic influence, while at the same
time leaving room for genuine encounters with God?

“4. Clear guidelines concerning the restoration of fallen ministers.
The appearance of one prominent fallen evangelist, Paul Cain, at
the Lakeland Revival in May unleashed strong reactions from
many sectors of the church. Many people feel unprotected when
they sense that church leaders have chosen not to enforce proper
discipline for a minister’s unbiblical behavior. In this adulterous
generation, how can we draw lines to protect congregations while
at the  same time offer healing and grace to a repentant preacher?

“These are some of the crucial questions we face as a movement.
May we proceed with a fresh gift of discernment, while at the
same time laying hold of all the blessings that revival will bring us.”
[END QUOTE – Source- www.charismamag.com/fireinmybones ]

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ANDREW AGAIN:  After reading those last four points, all I can
do is shake my head. Surely, Lee, you can see that if any
movement has traits like those four at the center, then it simply
HAS to be a dangerous deception? I mean, look at those four
things again. Each of them is so serious that they are a major
issue in themselves. And yet this movement has all four right at
the heart! How can it be anything other than a deadly counterfeit?
Is this the kind of revival we want in the Last Days? Is this what
we want spreading around the globe?

Your call for major leaders to come together and make a unified
statement is admirable – except I have not come across any
major leaders (apart from yourself) willing to actually warn of the
dangers of this movement. And anyhow, where is the “middle
ground” in this debate? I happen to believe this movement to be
a deadly deception. Other leaders praise it as being a “great
revival”. How can there possibly be ‘unity’ between camps like that?

Brother, the fact is that I believe God is calling YOU YOURSELF
to be a “voice” for wisdom, common sense and discernment in
these days – and to be totally bold, unafraid and uncompromising
about it. Don’t go looking for a “committee”. You have a voice in
the Charismatic community. Speak out! It is impossible to please
everyone. Dear brother – please don’t straddle the fence. What if
this turns out to be one of the great Last Days deceptions and
you spent all your time trying to be “moderate” and balanced about it?

Speak boldly, let your voice be heard, make a clear trumpet sound.

The Charismatic community needs you now more than ever, my friend.

God bless you all.

Andrew Strom.

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BAM! POW! WHEN PRAYER MINISTRY Gets VIOLENT

-by J. Lee Grady (Charisma).

Lakeland Revival leader Todd Bentley’s unusual prayer methods
have triggered questions about Holy Spirit etiquette. For weeks the
blogosphere has been sizzling with comments, pro and con, about
the unusual ministry style of Todd Bentley, the leader of the
Lakeland Revival in Florida. Thousands of people have watched the
tattooed evangelist shout “Bam! Bam!” as he prays for the sick and
interviews those who say they were instantly healed.

Nobody could ever accuse Bentley of lacking zeal. And he always
gives Jesus the credit for the healings he announces on God TV
every night. But he has come under fire because of video clips
from a sermon in which he says the Holy Spirit told him to use
violent means to heal people.

The sermon, preached in Lakeland and posted on YouTube,
features Bentley demonstrating how he (1) banged a woman’s
crippled legs “like a baseball bat” on a stage; (2) tackled, mounted
and choked a man to free him from a demon; (3) shoved a Chinese
man to the ground to pray for him (causing the man to lose a tooth);
(4) kicked an older woman in the face with his biker boot to heal
her; and (5) “leg-dropped” a pastor—a professional wrestling tactic,
popularized by Hulk Hogan, in which the aggressor jumps in the
air and lands on his opponent with one leg outstretched.

When we asked Bentley about his unorthodox methods, he
assured Charisma that none of the people were hurt and that
many were healed. He also explained that British evangelist Smith
Wigglesworth, a
legend in the hall of fame of Pentecostal
preachers, used similar methods.

So if Wigglesworth healed a man by punching him in the stomach,
and Bentley sees similar results by using techniques borrowed
from the World Wrestling Entertainment, does that mean we
should teach all altar workers to become more aggressive?

I know that people have been healed in the meetings in Lakeland. I
know of a woman from South Carolina who was healed of cystic
fibrosis while sitting in one of Bentley’s services. (She was never
touched by anyone.) I also know a man from California who was
healed of sleep apnea while watching the Lakeland revival on
television. Jesus is most definitely still in the healing business.

I also know that Bentley is not performing Hulk Hogan stunts from
the stage in Lakeland every night. But because his comments
about violent prayer have been so widely broadcast, we need to
call a timeout and make it clear that hitting people is wrong, period.
Bentley’s teaching on unorthodox prayer methods should include a
disclaimer: “DON’T TRY THIS AT HOME.” Here are three reasons why:

1. The Holy Spirit is gentle. Jesus boldly drove the moneychangers
out of the temple with a whip. But when He prayed for sick people,
there is no record of Him head-banging or leg-dropping anyone. He
rebuked evil spirits authoritatively, but He never hit, slapped,
choked, mounted or kicked a person. He was meek, which means
He knew how to control His strength, and He never threw His
weight around.

When He commissioned His followers to heal the sick, Jesus told
them to “lay” hands on them (Mark 16:18). Since gentleness is
part of the fruit of the Holy Spirit (along with kindness—see Gal.
5:22-23), any ministry we do should be tempered with mercy and
concern.

2. If we minister in the flesh, we will reap flesh. Several years ago I
was standing near the stage in a large meeting when a visiting
evangelist said he wanted to pray for all the ministers in the room.
Immediately some ushers yanked me up to the platform and the
man of God raced over to “pray” for me. Before I knew it, I was
assaulted in the name of the Lord.

Whack! The guy hit me so hard that I fell down and held my face in
my hands to hide my grimace. The skin on my neck was stinging.
When I finally went back to my seat, a friend ran over to
congratulate me, saying, “Wow, I saw you go down under the
power!” I had to grit my teeth and ask the Lord to help me forgive
the preacher who inflicted pain instead of a holy impartation.

Why do we think that more bodies on the floor equals “more
anointing”—especially when the evangelist shoves people to the
ground or slaps them silly? To build a ministry on such foolish
theatrics is to trust in the arm of the flesh.

3. Somebody’s going to get hurt. We reported last week that a
Tennessee man sued his charismatic church because its pastoral
staff did not provide the proper “catchers” when he fell down during
a prayer meeting last year. Matthew Lincoln of Knoxville said he
struck the hard floor of the sanctuary with his head and aggravated
a disc problem in his back, resulting in the need for surgery.

I don’t know the specifics of the situation in Knoxville, Tenn., and
it may be that this church has done everything possible to provide
a caring atmosphere in their meetings. Plus, the man suing the
church does not say anyone hit him or knocked him over. But
serious accidents are bound to happen if we don’t stress the
importance of ministering with gentleness and wisdom.

In our zany charismatic world we often let our zeal run wild. I’ve
been in services in which all kinds of injuries happened. Once I
watched a 300-pound man fall on a frail woman. I’ve seen heads
hit metal chairs. I’ve seen evangelists step on people’s arms and
legs. We may say the Holy Spirit is moving, but—more often than
we want to admit—our chaos may be a sign of our immaturity.

Please understand me. I desperately want the power of God to
invade our churches. I’ve been in meetings in which the Lord’s
glory was so thick that no one could stand up. I have felt the
weight of His presence fall like a blanket on a congregation. And I
remember falling to the floor when I got within four feet of a humble
Indian preacher who barely touched people on the forehead when
he prayed for them.

We don’t have to force things to happen. God’s power is real. May
we never settle for a man-made imitation.

~J. Lee Grady is editor of Charisma.
SOURCE-  http://www.charismamag.com/fireinmybones/

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“I’VE CHANGED my MIND ABOUT LAKELAND”
– Ken [-Revivalschool member].

Well, shortly after Lakeland started I was posting here as a
“supporter”. I had my life transformed in the Brownsville revival,
and knowing that many who were offended at Lakeland were from
the same camp as those who opposed Brownsville, I naturally took
what I thought to be “the proper side”. Although I did say I was put
off by the hype surrounding Lakeland, I was open to the idea that it
was “from God”, and I saw criticism from this board that I chalked
up to mostly phariseeism.

Then a couple of weeks ago I saw this video on YouTube. [-Linked
below]. It changed my mind once and for all. I don’t know what
spirit was speaking to Bentley when he was told the revival wasn’t
about getting people to Jesus, but it’s about getting people to
believe in “the angel”, but I’ve enough discernment to know it
wasn’t God’s Spirit!

This should be elementary, but since sharing this with others I
know who’ve supported Lakeland, I was shocked to find it really
didn’t bother them in the least! The leader of the revival says it’s
not about getting people to Jesus but getting them to believe in
“the angel”- SINGULAR. What the heck? Is this the delusion?

Well, I’ve seen the devil tip his hand and I’ve turned the other
direction. If God allowed me to see it and turn,
He’ll show others
too. I’m praying it happens, and I’m telling everyone I know about this.

I apologise to anybody I might have offended or misled in keeping
my “open mind” about Lakeland. I would exhort everyone who still
thinks this is “from God” to honestly listen to what’s being said on
the video. Does the Holy Spirit lead people to Jesus, or angels?

LINK to VIDEO –
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lKA_X1zxOQc
————-
MORE from KEN:
Todd said that “God” told him “Todd, you’ve got to get the people
to believe in the angel.” I don’t know how else to take that. I don’t
have a problem with believing in the supernatural, if I didn’t believe
in the supernatural I wouldn’t believe in Jesus in the first place!

But look at the statement again. It looks like an agenda to me.
Todd and the rest (Bob Jones, etc.) are always talking about their
encounters with supernatural entities, but you never once hear
how they test what they’re supposedly communicating with. I’ve
even heard BJ say that he told a “priest” that was talking to him, “I
know that you’re Jesus, but I don’t know who”.

So who, or what are these spirits that are talking to these guys?
They aren’t tested, and nobody from the prophetic movement
seems to think it’s important that they are. The “credentials” of the
preacher passing on the message are good enough (Credentials
meaning, how many people do they have following their ministry).
Well, that’s not the criteria I read in the Bible for testing the spirits…..

So my point is, the spirits aren’t tested, so all you have to go by is
does what they say agree with the Spirit and the Word? Would it
be on God’s agenda to get people to believe in “The angel” ? Why?
Was that a running theme in the New Testament church? Was
Paul bent on getting the “gospel of the angel” to the church at
large, or to any of his mission field? I have to say no, it is and
always has been and never will be anything other than getting the
people to JESUS. If things aren’t going “that direction”, count me
out – I ain’t goin’, and I’ll tell anyone else who’ll listen they should
skip the trip, too…

In the context of that message Todd was talking about “the angel
of the winds of change”, who Todd says is responsible for the revival.
Why is an angel responsible for the revival? Why wouldn’t God
Himself be responsible? What angelic entity that was of the host
of the Lord would even allow a “move of God” to focus on itself? I
can think of only one type of angel that would receive any kind of
special attention or glory from men – that would be a fallen angel.

 

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A CHRISTIAN CIVIL WAR??
-Andrew Strom.

This week the editor of Charisma Magazine, Lee Grady, published
an article on a topic that I have very much been wanting to comment
on myself for some time. His article is called “Can We Avoid a
Charismatic Civil War?” Below are some large extracts from the
article – with my comments at the end. Friends, this is a topic that
truly concerns us all:

Lee Grady writes:
“Some leaders say the controversial Lakeland Revival is forcing us
to choose sides. But I don’t believe God wants to split our movement.

“It’s been more than 10 years since charismatic prophet Rick Joyner
predicted in his popular book The Final Quest that believers would
experience a Civil War in the church. Joyner’s book, based on a
series of visions he says God showed him, describes in graphic
detail a turbulent conflict that redefines Christianity as we know it.

“Other charismatic leaders have echoed this theme since Joyner’s
book was published in 1996. They have predicted that our move-
ment will be divided between “Blues” (those who constantly live
in the supernatural realm of dreams, visions and miracles) and
“Grays” (those who rely more on their intellect), and that the Blues
will win and usher in true revival as champions of the Holy Spirit’s power.

“Even in early 2008, before the Lakeland Revival erupted in Florida
in April, some charismatic prophets were declaring that a great
rift would divide those who believe in “the glory realm” and those
who have a more conservative, left-brained approach to their faith.
When God TV began its nightly broadcasts of evangelist Todd
Bentley’s healing meetings in Lakeland, the Civil War prophecies
reappeared overnight on hundreds of blogs and e-mail blasts.

“I’ll admit I was not paying too much attention to these Civil War
predictions 10 years ago. But I was jolted into reality in May after
I wrote an online column in which I raised honest questions about
some of Bentley’s teachings and techniques. Even though I
celebrated his passion and zeal, and praised God for the healings
that were reported in Lakeland, I was immediately branded a revival
critic and banished to the Gray camp.

“I became the bad guy because, by asking questions, I was
‘relying on my intellect.’ To those in the Blue camp, my skepticism
made me an enemy of the Holy Spirit and all things supernatural –
even though I believe that all the supernatural gifts of the Holy
Spirit are for today!

“I tried to laugh this off at first. Surely, I imagined, my Christian
brothers and sisters do not really think it is wrong for a Spirit-filled
believer to test the spirits (which we are instructed to do in 1 John
4:1), discern truth (see 2 Pet. 3:17) or evaluate prophecies and
angelic encounters (see 1 Cor. 14:29, Gal. 1:6-8).

“But now I realize that some people really want a war. They want
the charismatic movement to split right down the middle. They
imply that all those who do not embrace 100 percent of the current
movement in Lakeland are “old wineskins” that cannot be used by
God in the coming revival.

“I can’t even describe how much this hurts because I love people
on both sides of this conflict. I love the Blues and the Grays, along
with every other color in the body of Christ. I refuse to believe that
God is trying to split us. Division is the devil’s work.

“I want to plead with everyone in our movement to reconsider the
whole Civil War scenario. Instead of rattling sabers and stockpiling
gunpowder, maybe we need to take steps in the opposite direction:

1. Let’s accept one another…

2. Let’s admonish one another….
[B]ecause I embrace Todd Bentley as my brother in Christ, I must
take a higher road even if I don’t agree with his prayer methods or
his claims regarding angels. Anything I say, even if it is corrective,
must be said in love (see Eph. 4:15).

3. Let’s pray for one another (see James 5:16). Jesus prayed that
we would
be one. There is no record of Him praying that we would
split over doctrine. So why in the world would any of us hope for
a Civil War?

“Please pray for Bentley – and for the leaders who are speaking
into his life during this season. And pray that the church will not
only experience genuine spiritual revival but also true unity. Let’s
work out our differences, support one another’s ministries and
focus all our efforts on one common goal: To tell a lost world about
the love of Jesus.”  [~Source: www.fireinmybones.com]

Andrew Strom replies:
I am just as strongly against a “Christian Civil War” as Lee Grady,
but there are certain things in his approach that I just cannot
agree with. Back in 1996, when Rick Joyner came out with his
Civil War prophecy I even wrote an article on it entitled “WHY I
OPPOSE the CIVIL WAR”. (-A pretty outdated article now, but I
am just as opposed today as I was then). I have never believed
in such a thing – especially when it was essentially a call for the
Prophetic/Toronto camp to try and “drive out” those who oppose
them – right out of the church. It always seemed an utterly ill-
advised and disastrous course to me – to put out a call like that
just because people are opposing or questioning the “manifestations”
that you are involved with. Is that any excuse for trying to “drive”
them out? -I felt quite sad and shocked by it.

But Lee is right. There is a lot of “aggression” around right now –
and it always happens when these kinds of movements come
along. People get aggressive and nasty on both sides. I noticed
it with Toronto and I am noticing it now. Suddenly everyone wants
to “bash” each other. They want to make it “personal”. I am not
into this either – not at all.

There is nothing wrong with asking questions or “testing the
spirits”. In fact we are COMMANDED to do this in Scripture – “for
many false prophets are gone out into the world.” (ie. Because
they did not ‘test’ the spirits – 1 John 4:1). But I believe we can
do this without becoming harsh or demeaning or ‘personal’ about
it. We can simply bring out the facts and let them speak for
themselves. We don’t have to get “nasty” at all. This is one of the
biggest problems I have with the ‘heresy hunters’ that are all over
the Internet. There is often such a harsh, sarcastic, “personal”
tone to much that they write – and they seem almost eager to
dredge up every little piece of “dirt” that they can. It becomes
literally a “mud-slinging” contest – harsh and ugly – without any
of the fruit of the Spirit demonstrated at all.

Do I want to be attacking Lakeland or Todd Bentley in that way?
No – I want no part of it at all. I believe we can raise the issues
and bring forth the facts and “test the spirits” without resorting to
any of these tactics. And our battle is not with flesh and blood
anyway – it is with spiritual deception in “high places”. So I am
not at “war” with Todd Bentley. I will be as polite and reasonable
as I can – while still putting forth the TRUTH about what I regard
as dangerous heresy.

And here is where Lee Grady and I begin to differ. You see, in the
Bible, heresy and deception and “seducing spirits” were always
treated as deeply serious and horrific things. With serious deception
it was never a case of being “lovey-dovey” or making mild ‘back-
room’ corrections. You will notice that in Scripture they always
corrected large-scale public deception IN PUBLIC. Sometimes
Paul would even name names in public – or issue public rebukes.
If there was a private offense or a personal issue between brothers –
that was different. If at all possible, you deal with personal offense
privately. (Matt 18). But when there is large-scale deception that is
spreading, you have to speak out boldly, publicly and strongly –
because the health of the entire body is at stake. This is clearly
what we see in Scripture. And “lovey-dovey-ness” was out the
window! Paul and the apostles and Jesus Himself were very strong
in publicly rebuking these kinds of people and their practices –
whether they were believers or not. They did it for the health of the
whole Body.

Sadly I get the feeling that Lee Grady may be whimping out a
little bit on some of this. It sounds so loving and “tolerant” to
speak of unity and say things like ‘Can’t we all just get along?”
But this is not true biblical unity – which is based on TRUTH.

The fact is, Jesus said, “I have come not to bring peace but a
sword.” There is sometimes a division or separating that occurs
over major issues which is unavoidable – and in fact can be totally
necessary. There are some things that God does not WANT
connected with His body! A separation is not always bad. It
happened with Jesus all the time. He came to bring a “sword”
after all – and He promised that such things would happen.

So I can well believe that there may come some kind of separation
in the Charismatic movement. But let it not be because we
ourselves are trying to “drive” people out or slinging mud – or
engaging people in ways that are harsh or bitter. Let us preach
the truth in love, and if there is to be a separation, let God Himself
bring it about – not us through strife or bitter contention. My friends,
there is a way to conduct ourselves in these things that should
speak volumes to all – even the opposers. Let the spirit in which
we do things be truly godly. Amen?

This issue is being discussed at-
http://www.revivalschool.com

God bless you all.

Andrew Strom.

 

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An ICA ‘APOSTLE’ SPEAKS OUT on LAKELAND
-Andrew Strom.
[With huge thanks to RevivalSchool member ‘SoulDan’ for his help].

First, let me start by saying that Robert Ricciardelli has been
incredibly bold and courageous in speaking out on this issue in
recent days. He is one of the very few from NAR circles who have
dared to speak up – firstly on blogs and on the radio – and even on
our own Forum at RevivalSchool.com, etc. Robert is a member –
a “marketplace apostle” in Peter Wagner’s “International Coalition
of Apostles” (ICA). He is the real deal. For him to speak out
about Lakeland is a very brave act indeed. Plus he is a Charisma
Magazine writer and a friend of Lee Grady.

Last week on July 14th Robert was a guest on Radio KGNW –
where he spoke of how he had just come back from Lakeland, and
told of his deep concerns and the background research that he
had been doing. On July 16th he commented on one Internet blog:
“Truth is there are very few people being healed in Lakeland. I
have worked with Charisma Magazine editor Lee Grady in
discovering how many false reports have been released as facts.
These are our brothers and sisters involved in this, but this move
of God has been a move of men with God still touching some
who come to seek Him.”

On another blog he wrote: “Charisma reporters and a few others
like myself have tried to get these verified and cannot… We actually
had offered to help, because any news of a resurrection in my
opinion is world news if it can be validated. But then when the
totals continued to mount which led to hype and e
mbellishment,
they began to ask us to stop asking questions. Hmmmm?

“Friday night, Todd said that God said there were 1000 people that
were to give $1000, and they were to receive a 1000 fold blessing.
The one hour drama on this giving subject was so deceptively
evident that it was embarrasing to watch. On top of that, those
that would give that money were able to come to the platform to
be recognized.”

Concerning the ‘Resurrections’ in Lakeland, Robert wrote: “We
have investigated the 20 plus “raised from the dead” claims as we
want to report them to the media, and they cannot be verified, but
were only called in, or sent in from an email. This is not responsible
reporting, and leaves many questions, which also adds to the
claims of hype and embellishment.”  [~Robert Ricciardelli blog
comments – ‘jasonclark.ws’ & ‘stevehickey.wordpress.com’]

The hour-long broadcast that Robert did on KGNW is also causing
quite a stir as it does the rounds on the Internet.

On our own Forum at RevivalSchool.com, Robert publicly added
the following comments:

“Peter Wagner and Chuck Pierce nominated me as a marketplace
apostle 6 years ago. I threw the title away before I ever got it. I am
not into titles, but I am into functions. The Lord told us “yes” to
engage, and He was going to show us some truth in the process.
Being engaged has given us a great oportunity to see the good,
the bad, and the ugly of the apostolic/prophetic movements. The
biggest thing along the way is the friends and associates we have
met that have a biblical worldview much the same as we do…

“After this year we will pray about next year and so far it looks
like the Father is giving us a sense that we may not to be a part
of the ICA if Peter and the leadership do not reconsider their
impromptu decision to jump into the Lakeland stream, when many
of us warned him not to. It was a mistake to coronate, when they
needed to father and correct Bentley from the direction he is
heading others into. It just put more fuel in his errant tank.

“I am praying for Todd, because he really is an evangelist, and he
is a gifted evangelist. But he cannot go on embellishing, speaking
untruths, hyping, manipulating, shoving, kicking, slapping, leg
dropping, and bamming his way on the pulpit without consequences.
God will not be mocked, and Todd and others must answer to Him
for everyone led astray.

“The biggest thing about Lakeland is the lack of the fear of our
Awesome God, lack of repentance and humility. Many have
exchanged the truth for a lie and chosen experience over content.
Angels, trances, and 3rd heaven focus has replaced the gospel
as a focus… Lord do what only you can do to bring your divine
alignment to all of us in Jesus name..” [-end quote]

I took note of the fact that Robert said that “many” had warned
Peter Wagner not to jump into the Lakeland stream. I also noted
that Robert seemed to be saying that he himself may leave the
ICA over this issue. I thanked him publicly for his courage in
speaking out, and asked him if there really was a lot of disagree-
ment even within Wagner’s own movement?

Robert replied:
“To answer your question, yes there is at least a dozen ICA
members that I know of that are extremely concerned at Peter’s
endorsement and more to follow as the nonsense continues. The
transferring of anointing, the focus on man bringing anything but
the gospel is amazing and sad…. if Peter Wagner, Bill Johnson,
and some distinguished members of the Who’s Who in Charismania
say it is all good, then people just go with it. Some have begun to
see the YouTube and other information and begun to change.
Some go as far as to claim it as deception, others say it is a
move of God that needs correction.

“It is my opinion that it was man orchestrated and demonically
influenced from the very beginning. The worship has been good
and Roy Fields is an awesome worship leader, so many in the
worship and even watching from afar can sense God in the worship
of His people. The truth is God has been engaged in the worship
and has touched and healed some. This is why it has been so
confusing to some. I have heard that Roy Fields has stated a few
times that when the worship ends, God’s presence leaves the
platform, and then Todd Bentley operates void of His presence.
That is why most all of what they have claimed cannot be verified,
because it just is not happening.

“We have heard a few people getting well, being touched and so
on. There is a church here in North Carolina that brought 27 sick
down there for a week. Some with cancer, leukemia, diabetes
and such. None got healed and most were worse when they
came back. The emperor is not wearing any clothes and the truth
must be known. Many are claiming that Todd is the new thing
that God is doing. The fact is he is still operating in the old thing,
and operating with less integrity and character than the previous
one man shows.

“God is about nameless and faceless people who are operating
without any agenda but the Lord’s. Preaching about the King
and His Kingdom, and moving supernaturally after Him, and as
they do, signs and wonders follow. The problem in Charismania
is that they seek the sign, they seek the thrill, they seek the
craft supply quality gold dust, feathers and gems. They may get
the chills and frills, but leave with nothing more than goose bumps
and really little spiritual change. When they seek the King, the
Kingdom of God and His righteousness, you begin to see
transformation take place at the heart level. This is God’s way
and always has been… Bentley is just a product of the Charismatic/
apostolic/ prophetic trending away from Plumb line truth. At the
same time the fact is, none of us amount to much, no not one.
But in Him and dying to self and living His agenda, we can move
mountains… The church is getting there, I wrote an article for
Charisma that everything that can be shaken is being shaken,
and this is what is happening in a great way right now…” [end quote]

Friends, please write to Robert encouraging him if you can for
the courageous stand he is taking.

See more of his comments + links to his article & radio show
on the ‘Scrolling Forum’ at the following website (main page) –

http://www.revivalschool.com

 

 

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“the good, the bad, and the ugly of the apostolic/prophetic movements…
Robert Ricciardelli has been incredibly bold and courageous in speaking out on this issue…
On our own Forum at RevivalSchool.com, Robert publicly added the following comments:

“Peter Wagner and Chuck Pierce nominated me as a marketplace
apostle 6 years ago. I threw the title away before I ever got it. I am
not into titles, but I am into functions. The Lord told us “yes” to
engage, and He was going to show us some truth in the process.

Being engaged has given us a great oportunity to see the good,
the bad, and the ugly of the apostolic/prophetic movements. The
biggest thing along the way is the friends and associates we have
met that have a biblical worldview much the same as we do…

“After this year we will pray about next year and so far it looks
like the Father is giving us a sense that we may not to be a part
of the ICA if Peter and the leadership do not reconsider their
impromptu decision to jump into the Lakeland stream, when many
of us warned him not to. It was a mistake to coronate, when they
needed to father and correct Bentley from the direction he is
heading others into. It just put more fuel in his errant tank.

“I am praying for Todd, because he really is an evangelist, and he
is a gifted evangelist. But he cannot go on embellishing, speaking
untruths, hyping, manipulating, shoving, kicking, slapping, leg
dropping, and bamming his way on the pulpit without consequences.
God will not be mocked, and Todd and others must answer to Him
for everyone led astray.

“The biggest thing about Lakeland is the lack of the fear of our
Awesome God, lack of repentance and humility. Many have
exchanged the truth for a lie and chosen experience over content.
Angels, trances, and 3rd heaven focus has replaced the gospel
as a focus… Lord do what only you can do to bring your divine
alignment to all of us in Jesus name..” [-end quote]

I took note of the fact that Robert said that “many” had warned
Peter Wagner not to jump into the Lakeland stream. I also noted
that Robert seemed to be saying that he himself may leave the
ICA over this issue. I thanked him publicly for his courage in
speaking out, and asked him if there really was a lot of disagree-
ment even within Wagner’s own movement?

Robert replied:
“To answer your question, yes there is at least a dozen ICA
members that I know of that are extremely concerned at Peter’s
endorsement and more to follow as the nonsense continues. The
transferring of anointing, the focus on man bringing anything but
the gospel is amazing and sad…. if Peter Wagner, Bill Johnson,
and some distinguished members of the Who’s Who in Charismania
say it is all good, then people just go with it. Some have begun to
see the YouTube and other information and begun to change….”

 

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FOR MORE:

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About False Teachings of today

Counterfeit spirit of god

Calling out false teaching

False Prophets

Todd Bentley – A Story of Earth and Heaven  by Mike Oppenheimer of Let Us Reason Ministries

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